Shannon McKinstrie: But again, instead of getting mad at Instagram, instead of getting mad at the algorithm, get mad at people because it’s us that are controlling it’s user behavior.

And that is exactly why we are seeing more brands lean into content that looks like a creator. It’s why we’re seeing more. People’s old strategies not work anymore because us as users, we wanna go back to OG Instagram where I feel like I’m seeing content from a friend or a creator and not a brand or a business.

So if you’re struggling, just know that like it’s, we’re getting back to basics big time. And you might just need to tweak a few things and relearn a few things. And like we’ve said throughout the rules and just put something up because it meant something to you. Say something because you wanted to say it, not ’cause someone said you had to say it.

Jade Boyd: Welcome to the Business Edit Podcast, a podcast about redefining productivity for the modern woman in business and finding ways to work smarter, not harder in business and life. I’m your host, Jade Boyd, an MBA business minimalist and [00:01:00] productivity coach. I help overwhelmed business owners simplify and feel their service-based businesses by doing less but better.

I help my clients create business. Minimalist strategies and systems that allow them to pursue ambitious goals while working at a human pace. On this podcast, we’ll explore simple ways to grow your business with a life first approach. If you’re ready to scale your business, bring order to chaos, ditch the busy work, and spend more time living your life than managing your life, you’ve come to the right place.

Welcome to the Business Edit Podcast.

Welcome to the show, Shannon.

Shannon McKinstrie: Thanks for having me. I’m really excited to be here.

Jade Boyd: I am so excited to have you. It’s been a while since we’ve been planning to have you on the podcast, so I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time. But for anyone who hasn’t heard of you yet, would you mind starting with just a brief introduction about who you are and what you do?

Shannon McKinstrie: Yeah, so my name is Shannon McKinstrie. I live right outside of Raleigh, North Carolina, and I’ve been [00:02:00] doing social media management for over 10 years, which then later switched over to consulting strategy speaking. So I just, I. Love marketing. I’ve been in marketing a long, long time. I’ve been in journalism and all that good stuff.

So everything kind of led me here to help small business owners and creators make sense of it all. And my whole thing is I, it’s not a place where we’re gonna burn out. It’s not a place that we’re not gonna have fun. I just wanna make social media enjoyable for people and actually get a return on all the effort you all put into it.

So, and just simplifying it all.

Jade Boyd: Yeah, so starting over 10 years ago, so much has changed, and I’m sure your work has changed so much over the last 10 years. So I’m really curious, what did social media look like when you started and how has your business evolved to like where we are today? I.

Shannon McKinstrie: Oh my gosh. I love that. No one’s asked that question. It’s so when I started, it was literally. I, like, for instance, one of my companies, right, that I was working for, I was a title company, and so I had like a mug of theirs that had, it was like chalk, so I could write a [00:03:00] message on it every week. So I would like write a little message, take a picture of my own counter, come up with a caption that was like their Monday post, right?

And then on Tuesdays I’d share a house that. One of their clients closed on and then we’d skip Wednesday. Then on Thursday I’d share like maybe a a, anyway, something from about DC ’cause that’s where they were located, like a fun fact. And then Fridays, we do a Friday intro and introduce someone at the title company.

And that was it every single week. And I would engage a lot. I would write on all the posts, all the accounts in the area that we knew that their ideal people were. Going to the comments for make sure that they’re seen. So I did that for them. I did that for countless realtor. I, I worked with so many realtors.

I did it for some local hair salons, a clothing boutique. But that’s what it was. It was just pictures and a pretty, very standard schedule every week. You know, very similar cadence and a fun little cheeky caption and some hashtags. And then, like I said, I would engage for [00:04:00] each person for. A long time every day.

A lot of my work was engaging because back then reels weren’t a thing. So to get in front of and get more eyeballs, you really just had to, I mean, you still need to engage a ton, but that was what it looked like. And it’s kind of funny ’cause I think people think, oh, it was so much simpler than I’m like, it was, but it wasn’t like to me.

I would never go back. Like, ’cause I was the one doing all the testing and tweaking and now it’s a little less guesswork. I know it feels like constant guesswork, but that’s why you’re here and listening. Hopefully.

Jade Boyd: Yeah. So speaking a little bit about engagement, like you said, some people think that things are getting more difficult and the algorithm is becoming more complex and confusing to understand ’cause it is. It is changing and social media and what’s trending does change a lot more frequently than other platforms that are more evergreen.

But for engagement specifically, I think that’s one struggle that business owners. Find a lot of like, Hey, I’m posting, I feel like I’m creating good content, but nobody’s commenting. Like, I have these cute calls to action and [00:05:00] nobody’s taking action. So how have you seen that change and like what tips do you have for, for getting that engagement as a business?

I.

Shannon McKinstrie: I, I mean, gone are the days of just like hoping , you gotta ask for it because we are scrolling so fast. So it’s like really making sure you’re inviting people in. And I, I mean, I’ve said it from the beginning of my business, it’s all about building a community. That’s what you’re doing whether you’re a plumber or you are a business coach or your, a Pilates studio. It’s like you need to build a community whether you’re local or not. Right. Because once people feel comfortable and they’re part of your community, they’re gonna wanna comment ’cause they wanna be a part of it. So if you’re creating content that makes people feel like they belong.

They’re gonna wanna comment. And this is something I tell people a lot ’cause when I create content about Instagram and growing, right, people will be like, oh, okay, cool. I’ll say that. Look at it later, whatever. But if I post a reel about my love of the beach and [00:06:00] my family and things like that, like the personal content will always get the more, most engagement.

And I always joke, if you want more engagement, get a puppy, get engaged.

Jade Boyd: Yes. Right.

Shannon McKinstrie: getting flooded. But it just goes to show that we still wanna know what are your business accomplishments? What’s something cool that happened in your life that doesn’t even have anything to do with business?

It’s okay to share that stuff. And I think for years a lot of people have told people like, do not, you know, niche down. You can only talk about this one thing. And I’m like, what? Like, no, that’s why people are stuck in not getting engagement. ’cause they’re putting themselves in a box and creating content that doesn’t make people wanna comment. They don’t even wanna comment.

Jade Boyd: how do you balance for a business creating content that is actually producing results for your business, like getting sales, booking clients, generating leads, but also being a personal brand or having that more personal content. How can you connect with people, but then also be strategic and not just like building friendships, but also building your business?

Shannon McKinstrie: Such a good question. Yeah. ’cause I think a lot of people are like, oh, I’m gonna get in the friend zone. I’m like, you’re not. And [00:07:00] also, I buy stuff from friends all the time, so. Right. And this is why I love reels so much because in the reel you could maybe give a helpful tip or tell your founder story or share something funny, or just, maybe it’s a motivational message, whatever.

It’s then in the caption you, that’s where you can kind of add more storytelling or be a little more serious, whatever it is you want. Because that’s why reels, in my opinion, have helped so many people grow and sell. Because it’s like two birds, one stone, right? When before it was an image and a caption.

Now we’ve got message. Message, right? So let’s say the real itself is really not business related. It’s about something random, like you went to Disneyland with your kids. Well, in the caption you can be like, and you know why I was able to do this? Because I have a roster of clients who dah, dah, dah, dah.

And if you’re looking for a blah, blah, blah, here I am. Like you can kind of hit ’em. In both parts. Or if [00:08:00] the reel is something helpful, a tip of some sort, a hack, a demo, a tutorial, and then the catching, you’d be like, hi, by the way, have we met? I am Jade and I da da dah. Right? So that’s where you’re able to connect on one side and then whatever the other objective is, if it’s sales.

I, I tell people all the time, I’m like, I convert off. Funny reels. I convert off empathetic reels. I convert off reels that have a tip. You can convert off anything because reels allows you to do that. So I always tell people whether, if your goal is okay, I gotta get people to listen to my podcast, or I gotta get people to.

By this guide. Well, maybe the reel has a small tip from the guide or a small part of the podcast, and in the caption you’re like, Hey, you want more Where that came from? I got you. And of course, ManyChat, if you’ve heard of ManyChat, if your viewers have that is great. That helps with engagement too, and helps convert that way too.

But I always say, you know, if I’m doing a funny reel about maybe my love of coffee or [00:09:00] whatever. That has nothing to do with my business. But in the comments they’re like, oh, I’m team matcha. I’m team there, or I’ve been there. I love that place. Have you tried this place? It starts conversations, but in the caption, I’m going, by the way, this audio is trending and here’s some ideas for you.

So then other people who are interested in that are like, oh, Shannon, thanks for the idea. I’m gonna take it and run with it. So that’s a long way of saying like, don’t box yourself into like each caption, each reel can do a whole lot more than what you think it can.

Jade Boyd: What do you think are the big factors that are separating the business owners on Instagram who are posting consistently and are not growing their business? I. And the business owners who actually are like you generating results and building relationships and getting sales off Instagram, what are the things that people might be missing or not doing that kind of differentiates those two camps?

Shannon McKinstrie: I think it is that they listen to some bad advice and they’re just only focusing on being a business and a brand, and especially with 2020. Also, everyone was jumping on the bandwagon. Everyone was [00:10:00] starting a business, everyone was on social. And we got bombarded and we’re like, oh my gosh.

And everyone started almost like being a character of themselves or something. I, I’m trying to think of what Yeah, exactly. It’s like that, is that really you like what’s real, what’s not? And it’s funny ’cause even 10 years ago I was telling my real estate agent clients who again, were the first people that took a chance on me.

I was like, you need to build a personal brand. I don’t care about your listing. I mean, sure. Cool. We gotta know you have a listing. I wanna know. Okay. You have five dogs. Cool. Where do you take ’em? What dog park? What restaurants with dog friendly patios are you obsessed with?

In our area? Okay. You’re obsessed with sports. Where’s your favorite place to go play pickleball. What’s right? Like, who are you behind the houses? And same with let’s say you are a fitness coach, right? Like, what are, what’s your favorite sports bra? I don’t know. Like, I wanna know about you, not just.

That I know you’re good at what you do. I can, I can tell. I can read your bio. I can go to your website. I can see your tips like, but what makes me think of you and Seth Godin, who’s like the marketer of all marketing [00:11:00] people recently set out, actually one of my friend’s podcasts. You know what separates people And he is like, we’re all probably sharing the same advice, the same this.

If all of a sudden your Instagram went away, would they realize. And I was like, dang, that really hit, because I know, and this is not to toot my horn, but I know there are people in my field with way more followers, but if their account went away. There’s another person saying the same stuff, and I wanna be the person that they’re like, no, no, no.

I wanna know what Shannon has to say about this. It’s because I share tips from my own perspective, my own research, my own clients, my own observations. And that should be the same with every brand. And I have a lot of clients who are actually dieticians, nutritionists, and I’m like, tell me what you’re ordering.

What are you making for lunch? What’s your favorite Aldi defines? So long story short, it’s the people approaching social media as human beings and not brands and businesses.

Jade Boyd: So you talked a little bit about how you simplify content marketing and specifically creating for Instagram. And one of the things that I love that you teach about is the four Hs. And we talked about this a little bit [00:12:00] before we hit record, but I love that you share real examples, like current examples of like, Hey, this.

Brand shared this exact reel this week, here’s how you can use it, or here’s why it’s working, and kind of breaking down the mystery behind why this content is working and how you can repurpose it. And so I would love for you to walk through the four Hs and if you can like give some specific examples of what that could look like, because I think in general it’s easy for us to go like, oh yeah I’ll act like a human.

And then we all our minds just go blank when we sit down and are like, okay, what do I create today? Blank, right? So many business owners struggle with that, and I think the four Hs is super helpful, so I’d love for you to go through that.

Shannon McKinstrie: Oh, well, I’m glad they’re helpful. For years, you know, I was like, okay, educational content entertaining content, inspiring content. We all said the same thing. And everyone was like, again, overthinking it. Like you said, frozen. They’re like, okay, I know what education means, so what I like to say is like, create based off the feeling, right?

We obviously follow people ’cause the account makes us feel something. So when you think of feelings, when it comes to educational, I was like, okay, let me pick a [00:13:00] letter. I kept trying to find a letter that worked for all four of those standard pillars, and I landed on H because I was like, humor was always gonna be the hardest one.

I was like, ’cause that’s, I’m like, there’s really a few ways to say that. So humor’s one of ’em. And that’s usually the one that I, I like to start with to tell people, if you don’t wanna be funny and you think you’re not funny, then. Again, you don’t have to do humor, but humor is simply just a relatable situation.

Just something that someone go, that is so me. That is so funny. That is so us. It doesn’t have to be hardy, hard, hard. Right. But like, again, I was, like you were saying, I wrote an email all about you know how all these huge, big brands are. Creating content that looked more like human content, like a, a creator or a friend of ours.

So for instance, one was like Taco Bell and it was like the girl’s handout and, and all of a sudden, you know, it says like, my relationship status. So you think like someone’s gonna come hold her hand and then they hand her a Baja blast. [00:14:00] Right. That’s funny. That’s not like, oh my gosh, genius. Like stand up comedy.

Right. It’s just funny. It’s like, oh my gosh. Yes. I, I, I’m married to Baja Blast too. Everyone in the comments is like, no, I’m Pepsi, or I’m this, it’s just like conversational, funny. So humor is one, and it’s something that like, again, they just relate to something that your people see themselves in.

And if they see themselves in your content, you’re golden. So humor’s one of ’em. The other is helpful. I. Right. So it just makes them feel capable. So anything that makes them go, I can do this, or that was really helpful, like I, you know, appreciate it. Like anything, right? So again, that could be a business coach showing like one tiny Gmail hack, right?

Or sharing an email template to write people for boundaries. It’s all those little tiny bite-sized things, and I tell people. Like you said, they get frozen. And I think it’s because we feel like we had to, and I tell everyone I was the same way. I feel like I had to save the world with every post. I was like, I’ve gotta help someone get to a million followers today with my single post.

And it’s like, it’s [00:15:00] not gonna work. I just need to give people one tiny thing. Right. So helpful again is something like that, an email template, phrases to say I always tell my therapist people, I’m like, give people the like phrases to say things to say. When da da da dah. Right? Something simple that they’re like, ah, that’s genius.

I can take that and I can run with it. They don’t have to like, wait six months for results, that sort of thing.

Jade Boyd: Yeah, that’s something that I frequently come across with my clients. When I do content reviews, I’m like, well, this should probably be like 10 different posts, or like a series or like 10 different blog posts. Right? It’s gonna be more helpful, the less information. You give people, which seems so counterintuitive, but we just don’t have the time.

Right. Especially on social media to read something that long.

Shannon McKinstrie: Oh my gosh, you said it so perfectly. That’s the thing. ’cause I think educational, that word as a pillar made us think we have to give like a

Jade Boyd: Mm-hmm.

Shannon McKinstrie: like worn peace, right? It’s like, no, just. Like you said, less stuff is gonna be more helpful and it’s just something that makes ’em go that was helpful. Right. Even like local bloggers, I’m like, when [00:16:00] you share like a park that has shade so that in the hot summer months, my daughter’s not gonna, that’s helpful to me.

That’s nothing crazy. You’re just like, Hey, did you know this park and dah da da da has a whatever. And then the third H is heard which again is like why we’re on social media. We wanna feel heard, like we belong. So those are any of those empathetic messages. I like to say pep talks ’cause I’m more of a tough love person.

But motivational. I even saw one this morning, I wish I had my phone on me. I saw one this morning that was like, no girl, you don’t need. It was such a brilliant hook, but she was like, no girl, you don’t need more. Whatever it was, you actually just need to get outside and walk, da da, da. So it was like a health coach saying like, you don’t need to do all this.

You just need to get your butt outside and go touch, grasp whatever it said. But it was a, and it had lots of engagement and it’s just one thing that they go. You’re right, I do need that. And it was kind of funny ’cause it’s like helpful and herd kind of mixed together. So I always wanna make sure when people say, oh well humor and herd kind of go together.

Helpful can. Yeah, you’re right. We [00:17:00] can overlap and that’s fine, but herd is anything that makes people go, thank you, I needed that. Or Wow, I never heard of it that way. It can be hot, takes thought, leadership, that sort of thing. You know, those classic ones that are like, I don’t know who needs to hear this, but like, that’s a perfect example of a herd.

And then lastly, happenings. And I tell everyone, I’m like, if there’s only one H you take and run with for the rest of your life, it’s why we’re on social media. It’s what are you up to? What’s going on behind the scenes? Why’d you get started? Who are you? It’s happenings. It’s like what social media is.

Here’s what’s going on. Here’s what I did this weekend. Here’s a win for my client. Oh my gosh, can you believe it? So yeah, those are the four Hs. I always post based on how I’m feeling that day. So if today I feel like being helpful, I’m gonna post a simple tip. If, if I feel like my people need to be heard today, I’ll post something like that.

That doesn’t mean I know a lot of people batch and, you know, schedule far in advance, and that’s beautiful. You should, but again, there’s no one way to do it. But as long as you’re staying in those four h’s, you’re, you’re gonna be just fine.

Jade Boyd: So kind of zooming out a little bit and looking at [00:18:00] social media in the broader context. ’cause like I said, I love listening to your podcast. I know that you’re on many channels and you do many channels really well. So I think it’s easy to look at Instagram itself and be like, okay, four H is. I got it. But then when it comes to creating, like how do I show up on a podcast and Instagram in a way that it makes sense together?

Can you give us a little bit of a peek behind the scenes on how you kind of balance the different platforms you have going on and what it looks like and what you would suggest for repurposing, if at all.

Shannon McKinstrie: Yes. I love that. Well, first you don’t need to be on every platform, right? I am. I kind of have to be. ’cause of my field, I usually suggest two to three. I like to call it the golden platform. What is the platform that your people are on and that you actually like being on? Like for me, that’s Instagram, right? I love being on Instagram, even though I love TikTok, I love LinkedIn.

I just feel like Instagram is where my people are and where I enjoy being the most. So that’s usually where I start. But because Instagram and threads kind of go hand in hand, now I find that what I love to do is test out content ideas on threads, and if it gets traction, [00:19:00] I then make it a reel With B roll, I.

Simple text, or I’ll take exactly what I said in my thread and that’s my script. Like I’ll just talk to the camera and say what I have to say or I’ll make it a carousel, that sort of thing. But typically for years I’ve started with Instagram. That’s where I started from Instagram. I would then take it and share it to either LinkedIn or TikTok, right?

Because obviously reels you can easily put on TikTok. Now, I do tell people when I. I actually did it reverse last night. I did something on Threads, did really well, but I’d already posted ’em on Instagram and I don’t like to post too many times a day on Instagram. So I was like, and then I made it a TikTok and it actually did really well on TikTok and for TikTok, for me, it’s my playground.

It’s like I don’t care how it does, I just put things out there. And I was like, oh, well shoot, then maybe this will actually do really well on Instagram. And then this morning I basically made exactly what my TikTok was, my reel. So when you think of short form video, right, Instagram. Reels, tiktoks, and then YouTube shorts.

So there you got 1, 2, 3. And now LinkedIn is [00:20:00] loving video. So it’s like, if you love TikTok, start there. Take your tiktoks, make them a reel. Take that, make it a YouTube. Short. Put it on LinkedIn. So now that we all have short form video on all these platforms, like Lean in, right? But if you’re more of a written person, not a video person.

Start somewhere like a Facebook post, a thread a LinkedIn post, and just take that text and throw it on some video with trending audio and call it a day. Like just see. But you don’t have to. If that sounds insane to you, then don’t just find your two to three Instagram and Facebook, pretty much our brother sister in many ways.

So you might as well if you’re posting on one post on the other TikTok, you will wanna. A little bit is just a very different beast over there. Too much to explain in a podcast. But basically if you’re like, okay, I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna do the Shannon Method, start with threads.

Take those thoughts, take those things that you wanna get out there, put it on [00:21:00] threads, and then you can either screenshot the thread, make it an Instagram post. Or take the text on the thread, put it on some B roll with trend audio, there’s your reel and you’ve got two done. You’ve got Threads and Instagram done every single day.

I’m sorry, by the way, none of my clients post every day. None of them.

Jade Boyd: Mm.

Shannon McKinstrie: But I know some people want to, they post about four to five times a week. And same with me. So yeah, that’s the best way to do it is just pick the two that you are like, okay. They kind of align. So again, I wouldn’t copy paste from one platform to the other, but Instagram and Facebook.

You’re kind of safe to do that. And threads and Instagram, so there you go. Threads, Instagram, Facebook. If you’re on one of those, you might as well throw what you’re doing up on the others.

Jade Boyd: I love how you are so nonchalant about it, of like, oh, no big deal, just. Just like, you know, throw it up there. It’s great. Which I think is a, it’s a great mentality to have. I feel like that comes over time and probably with a lot of practice too, because I do think a lot of business owners do overthink it and they’re like, oh my gosh, do, can I post this on the same day?

Or, you know, if it flops it, am I okay to [00:22:00] repost it or do I have to recreate it? Like, what’s gonna work? What’s the algorithm gonna nick me for? And honestly like it, it does become easier and I feel like it’s almost easier to be successful if you don’t overthink it and like, don’t try and think about all the rules.

Shannon McKinstrie: no, 1000%. And it’s so funny ’cause the rules I tell everyone now, when reels first came out, right, we were. Definitely it was different. There were a little, not so much rules, but I was definitely like, okay. Definitely if one’s doing well, don’t post another one right away. Right. The algorithm has changed so much and I mean the algorithm is always gonna favor content getting engagement.

That hasn’t changed. But as far as, like even with posts, we, we would especially when it’s chronological order, right? I mean, it was just different. But then once it’s switched from non chronological, if a post was doing well, it’s like. Sit back and enjoy it, like do not post again. But now it’s like there’s all the reels has its own algorithm.

The feed has its own algorithm, right? So it’s okay to do that, but really I’m like, throw out all the rules that you’ve heard [00:23:00] because there really are none. And and like I said, if one of mine does well on TikTok, that doesn’t mean it’s gonna do well on Instagram. But I’m like, I might as well throw it up there and just, and just see for the heck of it.

But I think the best thing to do is be self-aware. What. Are you better at? Are you better at writing? Are you better at talking to the camera and just yapping away? I, again, if you’re better at writing, then LinkedIn and Threads are gonna be like, and Facebook are gonna be like your number ones. And then again, you focus on Instagram more on carousels.

Than reels, right? Because on reels I’m gonna beg you to talk to the camera if that terrifies you. And you’re like, no matter what I do, Shannon, I suck at talking to the camera. Fine. Start with the written word. Lean on chat. GPT of course. Be like, make it better, make it punchier, make it sassier, whatever it is.

And you know, lean on carousels and b roll with text and Right. So that’s what’s so cool, and I think people get overwhelmed and I’m like, no, we actually have more options than ever [00:24:00] to create. It’s no longer just picture image.

Jade Boyd: So regardless of like what you’re better at or what content is easier for you to create, like speaking versus writing on Instagram right now, is there a benefit to like carousels versus reels versus posts versus stories like based on what your goals are, what kind of mix do you usually suggest?

Shannon McKinstrie: Yeah. I actually, so for me, carousels, I I. Obsess over. ’cause I want them perfect. I want them beautiful. I’m an aesthetics girly through and through, but I’m not good at them, if that makes sense. Like I want my graphics to look perfect. I’m not a graphic designer.

Jade Boyd: Yes, I can relate.

Shannon McKinstrie: Yes, but I love videos to not look aesthetic, like I like to consume videos that look like stories off the cuff.

Like someone’s just ranting in their car ’cause someone just did. So I wanna know in the moment what’s going on in your life. I love that type of content. So that’s what I create more of. I create reels that like, again, I’ll have a random thought, blast it on threads, get my words out, and then I’ll just [00:25:00] whip the camera around and talk it out.

And that’s how I kind of go. Carousels do so well for people, but for me, they, they do good, they do decent. But for the amount of time I spend on carousels there, it’s not worth it for me because I will spend hours when I will spend five minutes on a reel and it goes viral. So I’m like, what, what are we doing?

Jade Boyd: Are reels better for like increasing your following versus carousels, or is there a different difference in the algorithm in terms of what content is showing up?

Shannon McKinstrie: Not necessarily. ’cause you know what’s funny? The algorithm is looking at what you like. So if you prefer static images and carousels, you’re gonna see more of that, like when you go on the explorer page.

Jade Boyd: mm-hmm.

Shannon McKinstrie: and actually I find it interesting when I go to the explorer page, I see a lot of static content.

So it’s like the it, the algorithm’s still not necessarily being like go all in in reels or go all in in that. But even I have a buddy Lucas who does the same thing I do. Lucas O’Keefe and he says all the time his carousels do way better than his reels. And I think it’s because his. Audience prefers them, or [00:26:00] his message comes out better on.

And he actually has really cool engaging carousels and he has really cool engaging static images where if I did the stuff he does, I would spend, like I said, five hours on that one graphic. And then I probably wouldn’t do as well because I’m overthinking it.

Jade Boyd: Yeah.

Shannon McKinstrie: I don’t overthink my reels and the ones I do don’t do well.

So it’s just kind of funny, you know. Yeah, I think no matter what it’s, it’s gonna do well as long as the message behind it is clear. That’s

Jade Boyd: And I think this lesson can also be applied to so many other things. ’cause it makes me remember when I was first starting out in photography and I took this course from these wedding photography people who were like, you have to have, you know, the big, huge zoom lens in order to effectively shoot a wedding.

Like you can’t do it without it. And then I found this really successful photographer who was like, I only shoot a 35, like wide open. Entire wedding, I never switch. And it’s like, yeah, you can kind of make up your own rules and if you’re good at it and know how to use whatever tool you’re using, whether it be like in your creative field or on social media, even in podcasting, [00:27:00] like if you know how to use the tool, you’ll be good at it and you’ll make it work.

So I love that you kind of simplified that for us. ’cause again, that’s, I think that’s one of the things that people really overthink. They like, I have this idea. For a post, but it should it be a real or a carousel or, you know, it’s just those tiny things that get us stuck instead of just focusing on like, what do you want it to be?

It can be as simple as that.

Shannon McKinstrie: I love that and honestly, oh gosh, I love that you said all that because I, like I said, there’s no one way to do it and my account doesn’t look like other people’s accounts just like yours. Your people are gonna do it their own way. But with, if you are like, I have this idea in your brain, what does it look like?

If it’s a video, start there and then you repurpose it to a carousel or to a image dump, right? You can make every single thing a different formula.

Jade Boyd: So I thought it would be fun to go through a few things that people don’t like about Instagram and kind of almost do a little bit of mini mini coaching of like, Hey, if I’m struggling with this, what’s like your 62nd advice for the business owner who’s saying that [00:28:00] thing? Are you good? All right, so the first one is, nobody’s buying from me on Instagram.

What’s the point?

Shannon McKinstrie: I think again, there’s a, there’s a, my brain right away goes your funnel, right? Like, unfortunately, and this is where, this is where the social media manager comes out from me. ’cause so many clients would be like, I. Oh, my social media manager didn’t get my sales. I’m like, your social media manager isn’t responsible for your sales.

If your website isn’t great, your funnel sucks, or like you don’t have a good opt-in. Now, I will tell you on Instagram, we’re not, if you have a $5,000 program for learning photography, we’re probably not gonna go purchase it right away. But if you have a $37 guide. I’m gonna buy it, right? I get way more clicks when I go, here’s my podcast, here’s my freebie, here’s my $30 thing more purchases.

If it’s a $5,000 mastermind you [00:29:00] that you’re not gonna make money right away off of it, you might, but typically you’re gonna need to use Instagram to get them into the funnel. So if you’re struggling to sell on Instagram. Create a better backend. And I know all this takes time and I think people don’t realize, I’m like, it’s marketing.

It is time. It’s, it’s a lot of like, that’s why there are huge, you know, if you go to a major company or corporation, there’s not one marketing person, there’s a team of ’em. There’s like 10, 20, 30, right? So if no one’s buying from you. Figure out why it’s, it’s not an Instagram problem. Instagram isn’t to blame for your low sales.

It’s either a content, a messaging problem, or it’s a funnel problem, right? Even right now, my pro, my reels lab, it’s what? 2 97? Rarely do I convert off stories for that. Right? Unless someone, it’s like the third, seventh, 20th time they’ve seen it. Now they’re like, okay, I’m gonna go, I’m gonna go check it out.

But what they do convert on is my freebie that then gets them on my email list, which then converts to sales. [00:30:00] So that’s a long-winded way to say it’s not Instagram’s problem. But I will say, if. You have a product that is lower costs, you’re gonna see a way more we’re, we make way quicker purchasing decisions off that.

So that’s another thing I tell people. I’m like, well, it could be a pricing, it could, it could be a number of problems, but it’s not Instagram. I can promise you that.

Jade Boyd: Make sure your backend is set up, that you have a call to action on Instagram that makes sense and like builds that relationship with them. So it’s not just them scrolling through your content and never going anywhere. And two, look at what you’re selling and make sure that you’re selling lower ticket if you want them to buy on stories or leading into higher ticket, knowing that it’s gonna take a longer time

Shannon McKinstrie: And stories for sure. I, I convert on stories way more than

Jade Boyd: Yeah.

Shannon McKinstrie: Yeah.

Jade Boyd: Okay. How about it’s so time consuming to create content? I waste hours on this every week, and I just can’t keep up with it.

Shannon McKinstrie: I. That probably means a tweak. So again, that’s what I’m obsessed with doing is like seeing something. I’m like, oh, if you had just changed this one thing, you would’ve [00:31:00] quadrupled your views and doubled your sales and blah, blah, blah. Right? My biggest advice is look at what you’re consuming and look at what you are.

Purchasing and why? Like there was a, I talked about it on my podcast a couple weeks ago. I was like, there was a reel that the second I saw it, I went right to the girl’s bio and was ready to buy. And I was like, whoa, whoa. Okay. Now I was like, Shannon, back up. What? Just, what? Just did that, and a lot of it was storytelling.

It was a simple reel though. But I was like, she spoke to something coming up in my life that I needed something for. So, you know. My friend Brenda McGowan, who’s a brilliant launch expert, she’s like, at this very moment, 3% of your audience is ready to buy. So. Again, if you follow the four H’s, I promise it will work because we, a lot of people don’t ask themselves right before they post, like, how is this gonna make my person feel?

Or how do they want to, so if you only have 3% of people, okay, you’ve got 5% of the people following you, seeing your content, 3% of your following, being ready to buy, the numbers are [00:32:00] against you. Your content needs to be really good. And I think a lot of people are just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks.

And I’m telling you, if you know what’s working, you see what content you are consuming. You see what content is going viral. And I know this is hard, I try to make it sound too easy. I’m like, it’s not that. It’s just I’m constantly observing what’s working. If you see a reel going viral or you see something that you couldn’t help but share it with your spouse, share it with your family, share it in the group chat. Ask yourself why and how can I make this, tailor it to my niche? And a lot of it is messaging. I always tell people messaging first, social second.

So it’s usually a messaging problem. Or the fact that, hi, the reality is only a small portion of your audience is seeing it. And a small portion is even going to actually engage with it, purchase, et cetera. So knowing that it is a numbers game, but it’s also a messaging game.

So once you know what people actually care about, and [00:33:00] I talk about this in the podcast a lot, like there’s usually one or two words in that hook that grabs ’em, or there’s something about it that made them feel, and that’s what you gotta learn. And once you figure it out, once you know why people buy from you and why they follow you, you’re good.

And then content becomes so much easier and you stop wasting all that time. I forget who said it, but she said it on LinkedIn. She was like, marketing is like 90% research messaging and then 10% just having this gut instinct of what’s gonna work. And sometimes you just have to trust yourself. And like I said, I think throwing out a lot of the rules, getting back to being a human and just looking at what’s working well and being like, how can I make that for my industry is what works every time.

Jade Boyd: and I think part of that might just come back to like, what are they actually good at? And I think a lot of business owners try and stick themselves in the social media game when it’s not something that they’re naturally like a lot of people start businesses because they like. The thing that they do and not necessarily marketing.

Shannon McKinstrie: Mm-hmm.

Jade Boyd: part of it, like you said, is like knowing, just having that intuition and some people just really, [00:34:00] really struggle with that versus another platform maybe comes a lot easier to them. And so I do think part of it is I. I don’t think this is for all business owners because I do think there’s many things they can do, like join your reels lab, for example, and take some shortcuts to, you know, learn from people who do have that intuition.

But I think part of it is also just not being afraid to lean into the marketing channel that they actually do enjoy, where they can enjoy looking at what’s trending or what’s working and replicating it. So I love that you pointed that out.

Shannon McKinstrie: Yep. Like I said, there’s so many, there’s so many platforms and I know people that just like love TikTok and that’s like, I’m like, good do it. You know? Screw all the other ones. They’re just. That’s where if it’s working, I mean, some people are still going crazy off Facebook. I haven’t posted on Facebook.

I can’t remember. So yeah, it’s just, I never want it to be frustrating. And like you said, if it is there, I’ve, I’ve got programs for you. There’s so many other people out there who have programs. I’ve got free trainings. Like there’s someone out there that can help you.

Jade Boyd: Okay. Last, last coaching [00:35:00] role play, and this one kind of leads into a bigger conversation, but what about the business owner who’s saying too much of my self worth is wrapped up in how. My content performs and I just can’t log in without, you know, psychologically being affected by the likes and the engagement and just feeling not good about myself.

Shannon McKinstrie: It’s, I get it. Like I’m the same, I’m very attached to the outcome of, especially Instagram. Other platforms not so much, but Instagram, if something doesn’t do well. Yeah, same. And, you know, it does come down to a lot of it is we feel good, we feel excited when something goes crazy. Like it’s like, oh, we did it like something clicked.

For that. It’s obviously a lot of mindset, but I think almost like you said, I talk about this a lot, is self-awareness.

Jade Boyd: Mm

Shannon McKinstrie: And like, like you said, if you’re not good at it, then just know you’re not that great at it and then you’re gonna get better. And then you’re like, oh my gosh, look at this. There’s a lot of creators that I saw blow up during the 2020 everything, and now they can’t.

Now they’re struggling to get even a [00:36:00] thousand likes, not alone. Everyone’s feeling it. Everyone’s time to shine depending on user behavior or where you wanna be. So if you’re fine and Instagram is just not your place, then like, like Ru said, there’s other places to go email, like maybe email is your place to shine, right?

But I think as much as you can detach yourself from the outcome, the better. And that takes, you know, obviously a lot of mindset, but I also think no matter what we do, we’re gonna feel really bummed out when something doesn’t do well because we care. So I think the best way to think about it’s do I care because I’m trying to be in this to get a million followers and it’s a popularity contest.

If that’s it, then. That’s a harder thing to work on. But if it’s more like where I am where I get sad ’cause I’m like, no, I just really wanted to help people and I know this is really good. And then just try again, tweak it. You know, have a buddy. I always tell people, I think one of the best things is to have a buddy that you can send your content to before you post it to get a [00:37:00] second opinion.

Someone who will be honest and say, that didn’t make sense, or That’s hard to read, or that took too long. I, but that’s a really hard conversation to have because I get it. I, I’ve been there a million times. I see people who are getting more views than me where I’m like, that tip isn’t even true and that sucks.

And now I’m in my feelings and I wanna cry. Right. It’s, it’s ’cause we care. So if it’s because you care, then that’s fair. If it’s because you’re like, oh, I just wanna get to a million followers, well it’s, that’s not how this works.

Jade Boyd: With how much you love Instagram? Have you ever felt like you needed a break or needed to take a step back?

Shannon McKinstrie: For sure. But I love it so much that if I do, if I ever take a few days off, ’cause I’m just like frustrated, you’ll still see me in stories. And honestly, sometimes the conversations I have in stories or if I am frustrated, I will voice it and people will come to me in the dms and we’ll chat and then I’m like, oh my gosh, my people are here.

If Instagram was just stories, I, I would be, I would love that. Obviously I love sales and stuff, but [00:38:00] stories are where my people are and where I bond with them. So I think as soon as you get back to basic stuff like, no, no, no, my people are here and they are watching, you’ll be like, okay, reality check.

Even if only 200 people see my stories or whatever. It’s like, you still made a difference. I get a lot of people being like, my story views are down today. I am like, and did someone DM you? Did someone click the link? Then that wasn’t a crappy day, you got. Then you got some movement. But again, instead of getting mad at Instagram, instead of getting mad at the algorithm, get mad at people because it’s us that are controlling it’s user behavior.

And that is exactly why we are seeing more brands lean into content that looks like a creator. It’s why we’re seeing more. People’s old strategies not work anymore because us as users, we wanna go back to OG Instagram where I feel like I’m seeing content from a friend or a creator and not a brand or a business.

So if you’re struggling, just know that like it’s, we’re getting back to basics big time. And you might just need to tweak a few things and relearn a [00:39:00] few things. And like we’ve said this whole, like throughout the rules and just put something up because it meant something to you. Say something because you wanted to say it, not ’cause someone said you had to say it.

Jade Boyd: I think this lesson also applies to business in general because I think it’s the same reason why business owners get frustrated with their business of like, oh, this isn’t working. I’m working too hard. I don’t know why things aren’t sticking, when it really just comes down to creating value for people, which is what a business is.

And so much of that, I mean, unfortunately, is marketing research and knowing your audience and connecting with your people, and I think that’s what keeps a lot of people going on or off. Social media is actually connecting with real humans and like listening to their pain and knowing that you can help them in some way.

Like that has to be the underlying motivation because nothing else is gonna really keep you going at the end of the day. ’cause it’s hard. I mean, social media, business, all of it, it’s not easy.

Shannon McKinstrie: It’s all hard. And like you said, listen, like I think a lot of people, we talk so much and complain so much, we don’t go back to the drawing board and listen, I tell all my people, I’m like, [00:40:00] in your process for onboarding a client, is there an intake form? Is there any sort of inquire that you can look at?

What are the words they’re using? So again, for wedding. Photographers, it’s like, okay, they sure they want pretty photos, okay? Right. But they also might want someone who’s gonna tell their uncle to sit down. Right? They also might want someone who’s gonna make their wedding look like cinema.

It’s not just you the photographer, it’s the shooting style. It’s the way you handle things. Are you gonna include the mother of the are you gonna include the grandmother? Are you gonna grab the photos that like, we will never see because we are so wrapped up. Like, what are the things that they wrote?

Like, I don’t just want wedding photos, I want photos, I wanna, I’m gonna, my grandkids are gonna see one day take that POV. You just got the shot. You know, they’re gonna show their grandkids one day, like, that’s gonna make me wanna hire a wedding photographer, versus here’s, you know, here’s a wedding I shot.

Okay, cool. Right? Like what’s the story? Go back to the intake forms. What are the words they’re saying? What are the words people are saying [00:41:00] in Reddit threads? What are they bitching about? What are they moaning about? What are they complaining about? Go look. It’s all there. Do the research. Nail your messaging.

And then when you know those words, you see a reel going crazy. You take those, you take the words out that don’t apply to you and you brand and you put yours in and you’re done. It’s that. And I know, again, I’m not trying to make it sound easy. It’s not easy. If it was easy, all my rails would go viral, every single one.

But again, it is testing, tweaking. Having fun.

Jade Boyd: So I feel like anybody listening to this episode already has a million ideas for

Shannon McKinstrie: Yay. Oh my gosh.

Jade Boyd: creating this week. But like I said, you share stuff like this all of the time on any platform that you’re on. Real concrete examples of what’s working on platforms right now and how people can grow their audiences.

So where can people find you after the show if they wanna keep on learning?

Shannon McKinstrie: Yeah. So my podcast is called Good Content with Shannon McKinstrie. Episodes are usually around 10 minutes because that’s all I have. And, and I just like to give you guys quick wins because I know, again, this stuff is, it’s a lot to take on. So I just give you at least one quick win you can take and run [00:42:00] with that day.

My website’s, my name Shannon McKinstrie. I’m on Instagram a lot. I’m on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn. I’m on Threads. I’m everywhere. You don’t have to be, but wherever you are, hopefully you can find me and we can chat and I’m happy to dm. You know, shoot me a DM with any questions you have and yeah, just love to chat.

I’m an open book. I just, I just wanna help all the people.

Jade Boyd: And we will have all of that linked in the show notes too. So thank you so much again, Shannon, for being here. This is great.

Shannon McKinstrie: You are so welcome. Thank you, Jade. This was so fun.

Jade Boyd: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Business Edit Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, I’d be so grateful if you take a screenshot and share it on Instagram. Tagging me@jadeboyd.co. I’m on a mission to empower a new generation of women to become the types of wives, moms, and business owners that they’ve always wanted to be because empowered women change their families and communities for the better, and this is how we’ll change the world.

Sharing your takeaways from this episode on Instagram will help more women in business discover helpful episodes and level up [00:43:00] in life and business each week. Don’t forget to check out the show notes for the tools and resources mentioned in today’s episode because good ideas don’t grow businesses.

Action does. I’ll see you next time on The Business Edit podcast.