Sara Whittaker: You want people to be using this opportunity to learn from you and gain trust from you and, and get to know you, but definitely have somewhere where you can direct people in order to help them past the interview.

Jade Boyd: Welcome to the show, Sarah.

Sara Whittaker: Thanks, Jade. Thanks so much for having me. This is a long time coming. It’s nice to finally get to sit down face to face.

Jade Boyd: Yes. I think we initially started talking about this in March, maybe when we originally had everything scheduled, but we both had babies this, spring slash summer. And so things got pushed back a little bit, but I am really excited to have you here. And for those who don’t know you yet, do you mind starting with just a little bit of background of who you are and what you do?

Sara Whittaker: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m Sarah. I am the face behind podcasting for educators and I kind of have two different sides to my business. So I have a small podcasting agency where we do podcast production for our clients. So things like editing and show notes and scheduling and all of that, and then on the other side, I teach online educators how to launch and manage and grow their podcasts.

So kind of done for you or done with you types of services. I’m a former teacher. So I have a background as an elementary teacher and I just love, I love learning, and I think that’s what drew me to podcasts in the first place is, I think it’s just such a cool platform to learn from others and to teach your audience as well.

Jade Boyd: And what did it look like for you to leave the classroom to start this business? What did that journey, where did it start and how did you end up where you are today?

Sara Whittaker: Yeah, so I, it’s kind of funny, I, this was back in, it was right before COVID actually, I left the classroom in 2019, and we were building a new house. And so we moved in with my parents for a little bit, and my initial plan was actually, it’s like so crazy to think back on this, but my initial plan was to start an in home daycare. I just like, kids are what I know, it’s what I’ve always grown up doing, babysitting, teaching, all of that. And so that was kind of my plan, and that was my like, little pocket of opportunity. Like, okay, we’ve got, you know, we’re not paying our mortgage right now. I can kind of take this time to figure out what I want this daycare to look like.

And then I’ll be able to stay home with my daughter. My oldest daughter was, I think like two at the time, and I just, I really wanted that flexibility. I wanted to be able to work from home and actually spend time with her during the day instead of sending her off to daycare every day. And so I was getting ready to do that. And then I got, I think I got a Facebook ad for a program that taught you how to start a business. And so I actually started out as a virtual assistant and jumped right into that, and things just moved so quickly. I replaced my teaching income in like a couple of months and then that kind of just naturally progressed into switching over and kind of niching down into podcast management.

Jade Boyd: And what did it look like for you to niche down? I think so many business owners start out more or less similarly to you, like they get into something and they’re not sure if it’s the right fit. They try it for a while, they’re learning and eventually reach the point where it’s like, okay, I kind of want to narrow down what I’m doing, I’m doing too many things for too many people. What did that look like for you to get that clarity and like, ultimately decide that you wanted to niche down into podcast management, but not only that, like podcast management for a very specific audience.

Sara Whittaker: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So, as far, so like I said, I started as a virtual assistant and and that was great and I’m so grateful that I did that because it taught me so much about so many different things. And I was able to see the back end of people’s businesses and learn all these different programs that I had, you know, no idea even existed before. But the downsides to that is, As a virtual assistant, people tend to throw all kinds of things at you. And so you’re involved in like so many different pieces of all of these clients, businesses, and it gets to be very overwhelming. And I just really loved the idea of being able to like focus on one thing and get really good at it and, you know, really knowledgeable about it. And I actually, one of my clients. teaches people how to become podcast managers. And she had hired me and wanted me to go through her program and learn about it. And so that’s how I kind of like fell in love with it. And so then I decided to go from virtual assistant to podcast management.

And a lot of my clients, actually, my virtual assistant clients, at the time that this was happening were thinking about starting podcasts. And so I was able to kind of take over that position for them and, and learn a lot that way. And then, yeah, I niched down even more into working specifically with online educators. And really specifically, I work with a lot of TPT sellers. And, yeah, I don’t know how many of you are familiar with TPT, I always say it’s kind of like Etsy for teachers. It’s a platform where people sell their digital resources for teachers. So that was also a very, just like natural fit because the content is what my background is in.

So it all just was a very like natural progression, but scary. I mean, I think anytime you decide to niche down into a very specific area, it’s, it’s scary because you’re just not sure how it’s going to work out. You’re not sure if you’re niching down too far, but it’s worked really well.

Jade Boyd: Yeah. And I think it’s important to see that it is sometimes a really gradual thing. It’s not like today you’re working with everybody and tomorrow you fired half your clients and you’re only working with this very specific person until you get more of that perfect client. It can definitely be a gradual process, but also like a learning curve in trying things and seeing what works and what doesn’t because it’s not always the first thing that you try that actually ends up being the thing that you really want to do. And you not only help your clients grow their podcasts and find their ideal clients, you also are building your own business through podcasting.

And so I want to start out just by like painting the picture for us. How can business owners use guest podcasting to grow their audience? And what does it look like to utilize that specific strategy to like build authority in their niche, whatever that niche might be. And what results have you seen just for yourself and for your clients when they use that strategy?

Sara Whittaker: Yeah. So podcast guesting, you know, podcasting as a whole, I think is a very natural authority builder. And when you are a guest on a podcast, you’re kind of naturally put into that you’re positioning yourself as an expert like straight out of the gate, right? You’re coming on to share your expertise about something and that is how the audience is going to perceive you. So just being in that position alone is like step one. And we’ll, I know we’ll talk a little bit more about this. as we go on in our conversation, but podcast guesting is just a really cool way to build your email list, your social media following, and if you’re a podcaster, it’s a really great way to build and grow your podcast listenership. I always like to say that podcast guesting is a very like low investment, high reward strategy, meaning that it really like, it’s not a ton of time that you have to put into it in order to see results from it. And in 99 percent of the cases, it’s, it’s free. You don’t have to pay to go on and be a guest on somebody else’s podcast, it’s something free that you can do. And it’s something that you can usually see immediate, and as a service provider, I know I, a lot of your audience are service providers, it’s a really cool way to like weave in stories from your clients and show your expertise in that way. Show like what kind of results you’ve gotten from your clients and then hopefully like gain some, some new one on one clients from your guest interview.

As far as like what I’ve seen results from podcast guesting, it’s a really cool story. You know, we were just talking about how I’ve niched down into podcast management and then really niche down into, podcasters who are educators. When I first decided to go into that niche, I totally started from scrap, like started a brand new website with the name Podcasting for Educators, deleted my old Instagram, started a brand new Instagram, which is scary seeing that like zero followers, no audience, started a podcast like kind of all at once. And I ended up guesting on a podcast that was probably like the top podcast for that niche of online educators. And it was just such a perfect fit. And I knew that podcast casting was a good strategy, but that’s the first time that I really experienced it for myself. And the day that the episode went live, like I was on Instagram and seeing people start to follow me. People were messaging me telling me that they had heard the episode. I had a, we can talk about some mistakes. Maybe I could share some mistakes not to make, because there was one big mistake I made here, but I had like some, a lead magnet that was in my Instagram profile and people were signing up for it. And it really, was the catalyst to a lot of things to follow. And it really was from that one interview.

So it’s so cool to see, and so after I experienced that and started to do more guesting, I helped my clients do it as well. And I mean, we, you know, I work with podcasters obviously, and we like to track to see, okay, this month you guested on this podcast. Let’s see if it’s had an impact on your downloads. And we always see that spike in downloads when they’re guests on the show and, you know, depending on the emphasis that you’re putting in your interview, like where, where are you wanting to drive people to your podcast if you have an opt in that you want to share about in the interview, but we can track things that way. And we always see really good results as long as you are really strategic and intentional about the types of shows that you’re guesting on.

Jade Boyd: Yes. I definitely want to get a little bit more into that because like you mentioned, it worked really well when you were able to get a spot on a podcast that was really aligned in terms of the audience and you were really niched down. So it was It was possible for you to find a podcast that was niche and had a really highly engaged audience of really your ideal clients.

But what advice would you have for somebody who is maybe not as niche down yet? They’re still figuring out what they want to be the expert in. Do you have any tips for them on landing guest podcast episodes?

Sara Whittaker: Yeah, absolutely. And you’re totally right, like it was just kind of like a perfect match with the niche that I’m in and that podcast, but you can totally have success with like a broader audience. My first suggestion to people is always to kind of sit down and think about like three to five core topics that you would be comfortable, and competent speaking about on a podcast interview, and then even further coming up with like a few talking points to go along with each of those topics. And then you can, once you have those core topics and, and if you’re, if you’re like, okay, well, Like, how do I do that? Where do I even start with that?

You think about, like, the main questions that people ask you. Think about maybe emails that you’ve written or Instagram posts that you’ve created that get a lot of engagement, and you can tell that people are, like, really interested in that topic. Those are great places to start, and then you can kind of tweak those to, to match up with the specific podcast that you might pitch to be a guest on. So that’s definitely where I would start.

Jade Boyd: I love that. And I think that it’s. easy to ignore how much we know about specific topics, even if you’re not super niche, or even if you don’t see yourself as an expert yet, we all have topics that we could talk about for an entire hour if we were allowed to. And so I love how you boil it down to just, it has to be like three to five things.

It doesn’t have to be this huge laundry list of topics that you could potentially speak on. In fact, it’s probably going to work against you because I don’t know about you, but like, I get so many podcast pitches in my email every single week. And at this point I like don’t even read the full thing usually.

Sara Whittaker: Because most of them are terrible.

Jade Boyd: Yeah, most of them are absolutely horrible. And so I would also like you to speak to like, being that that is the case for most podcasters,and if you’re a guest podcasting and you don’t have your own podcast, a lot of people might not be aware of just how many pitches podcasters get on a weekly basis, even for the smaller podcasts or new podcasts who aren’t like, you know, top 100 business podcasts or anything like that.

So many pitches. And so how can someone stand out when they are pitching a podcast? What are some of the first steps they should take in addition to like narrowing down the topics that they might talk about? What are some other things that they could do to stand out as they are pitching?

Sara Whittaker: Yeah. So, so many bad pitches, first of all. And, okay, the, the biggest thing here that’s gonna kind of, you know, set you up for success is to do your research on podcasts. So you can head to, like, any of the listening apps, like Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or you can head to Google and start typing in some, you know, keywords that, that might help you find some podcasts to guest on. And you don’t obviously have to listen to like every single episode from that podcast. Nobody is going to have the time for that, but take the time to read the show description.

What is this podcast about? Who is the host? Who is their listener, most importantly, and do some scrolling through look at topics that they’ve covered, especially topics that they’ve covered recently, because you don’t want to pitch somebody on a topic that they just had an episode about, you know, last month. So take the time to, you know, listen to a few episodes, scroll through, look at what they’ve covered, do some research on the host, look at their Instagram page, like get a feel for who this host is and who their audience is, most importantly. And when you go to write your pitch, you want to start out by obviously like introducing yourself and making some point of connection, make this personal. You’re not just going to copy and paste. You can have like a nice kind of, a template that you tweak for each host, but you really want it to feel personal.

You could let them know like how you found their podcast. Maybe somebody recommended it to you. Maybe you did find it on Apple podcasts. Let them know how you found it and what kind of connection you have to that. Do a quick introduction about yourself, but don’t make it about you. Like, so I don’t know about you, Jade, but like so many pitches I get will have you know, three or four paragraphs of just this person’s bio, and I’m not going to pay attention to it because you know, when you’re hosting a podcast, you, your number one priority is making sure that you are creating content that people are going to like and that that’s going to help your audience.

So the host wants to know. Like, why should I have you on my show? And how are you going to help my audience? So that’s really what you want your pitch to, to, show is how you are going to come on and help their listeners. So you want to think back to those topics that you had initially brainstormed and those talking points for those topics and think about which would be the best match for this specific show that you’re pitching. So you’re really taking that work away from the podcast host and you’re presenting them with this idea. I think that this would be really helpful for your audience. Here are some things we could talk about. A really cool thing to do is even like give them a title suggestion for the episode. So you are literally taking all that work away from the host so that it’s a really easy yes.

Jade Boyd: Yeah, and I think that when, especially for the first time when you’re thinking about guest pitching, I think a lot of service providers go to the, the mindset of like, I’m asking too much of this person, but really we are looking for content. It is our job and it takes a lot of work to come up with good content ideas.

And so if you can pitch something that makes sense for somebody’s audience and do the work of coming up with a title for them, like you said, you are doing them a favor because they’re going to do all of that work anyway.

Sara Whittaker: Yeah, absolutely. Like we both have said, we get a lot of bad pitches, but I’ve gotten some really great pitches too. And it’s the best feeling like, yes, yes, yes, please book. Here’s my calendar link. Like book a time. I can’t wait to have you on.

Jade Boyd: Yeah, and doing the research really does make the difference. You can absolutely tell somebody who’s like literally just used the template pitch email and has filled in the blank. I recently listened to your episode on and then they just use the title and then it’s clear that they didn’t actually listen to anything.

Sara Whittaker: Yeah. it’s usually like your latest episode.

Yeah.

Jade Boyd: Yes. But on the flip side, I’ve noticed like when I’m doing research for pitching myself to do a guest podcast, one thing that I found to be helpful, I had Jordan Gill on the podcast from System Saved Me a long time ago and she called it the coffee test of like, would I like sitting down for this person, regardless of podcasting, like forget about that.

Could I sit down and talk to this person over coffee for an hour? And would it be a good conversation? Because there’s also just like that personality check where like sometimes the audience makes sense and you might have a great topic, but it’s going to be like a really awkward conversation. And for me, at least I don’t pitch the podcast where I try to listen to episodes and I’m just like, no, I, I don’t, can’t resonate with this.

Sara Whittaker: Yeah. For, oh, for sure. Yeah. You want to have that, like that easy kind of chat back and forth and a good way to kind of like showcase this would be to kind of see if you have that rapport and let the host decide if, if you would be a good fit is you can create, people call it different things like a media sheet or one sheet that has, you know, links to your social media so they can check you out.

You can even have, if you’ve been on other podcasts before, you can have like a little audio snippet from an interview that you’ve done so that they can really get a feel for who you are and where your personality is and if you would really be a good fit for the show or not. And this would all be, you know, hyperlinked in your email, attached to your email so that they can just click on it and, and check you out.

Jade Boyd: Yeah. And so you mentioned before, you’ve made some mistakes while guest podcasting. And so even after you get over the hurdle, like, okay, I’ve pitched them, I’ve narrowed down my topics. They’ve said yes, the next step is to actually make the most out of that time. And I’ve definitely made that mistake myself of like, wow, I just did like five guest interviews and nothing came of it because I didn’t talk about anything.

Right. And so I would love to hear like your best tips for making the most out of that time when you do get a spot or a chance to guest podcast, but also maybe some of the mistakes that you’ve made as you’ve tried the strategy for yourself too.

Sara Whittaker: Yeah. Such a good question. So first of all, the biggest mistake I made, like with that first interview that I had talked about at the beginning was I spoke on a topic that like, I didn’t have any kind of resource for at the time. So if people wanted to learn more about this after listening, I didn’t have a freebie to lead them to, to grow my email list or even a podcast episode about this topic. So that was a huge mistake I made. And then I will never make again. So you really want to, like, when you are coming up with these topics and pitching these topics, you do want to make sure that it’s connected to something like an opt in or a mini offer. I wouldn’t go on a guest interview and, you know, talk about your $5,000 one to one offer.

You know, this is like you want people to be using this opportunity to learn from you and gain trust from you and, and get to know you, but definitely have somewhere where you can direct people in order to help them past the interview.

Jade Boyd: So what are some ideas for people who are not only building their email list? You mentioned the opt ins, but since you’re growing podcasts and I’m assuming you’re using a lot of guest podcasting to grow your podcast as well. Other than linking to a specific episode, are there other things that you call attention to when you’re guest podcasting to grow your own podcast? This is a really meta conversation we’re having.

Sara Whittaker: It’s such a meta conversation. I know it really is. Yeah. So you can obviously, like you just said, you can mention your podcast as a whole, you can mention a specific episode, or you can do a playlist. If you’re a podcaster, you can create playlists on Spotify. Or you can, if you host on Captivate, there’s a feature on Captivate that you can create playlists. So you could create a playlist of episodes around the topic that you’re talking about. And that could be another really great free resource that you’re giving out to the audience. And you could create like a pretty link or some sort of redirect link for that. So that it’s really easy for you to say on the episode, but it’s also something that you could track and track clicks for.

Jade Boyd: I didn’t realize you could make. playlists with Captivate. Do they only play in the browser or did they play on like iTunes, Spotify?

Sara Whittaker: They, when you share the playlist from Captivate, it pops up in the browser, but the really cool thing is like, you know, sometimes in the browser, if you lock your phone, it stops playing, with this, it keeps playing. So it’s kind of like you’re listening on, on a listening app.

Jade Boyd: On just a normal podcast app. I love that. Okay. Taking notes here. Learning so much.

Sara Whittaker: So fun. Oh, I love playlists. Yeah.

Jade Boyd: What are some other common mistakes that you see people make when they’re trying to land guest podcast spots? Specifically, like you said, a lot of my audience is service providers, and I think we’ve already listed some of the things that hold them back.

But is there anything else that you see? service providers specifically doing that’s not doing them any favors when it comes to landing guest podcast spots.

Sara Whittaker: Yeah, I mean I think the biggest thing, and we kind of touched on this, but like, is just some people when they approach podcast guesting, it’s just like, I’m going to get out as many pitches as I can and just see what sticks. And that is just a strategy that’s never going to work. You really, like you do want to put some time behind this and personalize things and really come at it from like a quality over quantity perspective. And then, I mean, the other thing, I don’t know if I would call this a mistake, but I mean, I guess I could like a mistake that I see a lot of service providers doing is not using podcast guesting. I think a lot of times as service providers, we’re so used to like being behind the scenes, especially if you’re not a podcaster yourself.

And this can feel very intimidating, but I just want you to know, like if you’re listening and you’re a service provider and you’ve never been on a podcast before. It might feel scary the first time, but it’s going to get a lot less scary. And you really just like, you have to try it and rip the Band Aid off. And like, I, I guarantee that you’ll see the reward from it. And like Jade mentioned at the beginning of the episode, you are an expert in what you specialize in and podcast guesting is really just a cool way to be able to extend the number of people that you’re helping.

Jade Boyd: Yeah. Just to add to that service providers, at least the service providers that I work with, they all have such a heart for what they do. Like they care about their clients so much. And like you said, they’re often not the type of people who like being front and center. They like doing the behind the scenes work for a reason. And so guest podcasting may initially seem like, why would I do that? But I do think when we are looking to hire service providers, their personalities matter so much. And with guest podcasting, it gives them a chance to like, yes, you’re on video like during the call, but not always getting that video published.

It’s just your voice. So it is a step to helping people actually get to know you as a person more so than, you know, writing or typing anything up for an Instagram caption or something like that. It’s not live like you can edit things out, which is great. And it, it really is like a special first step to stepping in front of the curtain and letting people actually know you.

And I do think a lot of service providers think, especially if they haven’t podcasted before, that that’s, that’s for like extroverts and the specific personality type you have to be this specific type of person who is really great at talking. And that is not the case. Like I was just to one of my clients this morning who’s recording a private podcast for her clients and she’s like, this is so hard to talk into a microphone by myself, like I’m messing up so much when you’re not talking to a real person, you know, it can feel really frustrating when you’re first starting out, but it really just like anything else, it’s a learning experience and it does get easier. I would say it’s still not easy after like a hundred episodes, but it gets easier.

Sara Whittaker: Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah, I’m definitely not going to lie and say it’s easy, but it does, you get used to it. And, I actually like that, that interview that I had talked about at the beginning, she’s now a one on one client for me. Like that was the host of the podcast. That’s another cool opportunity that you have is actually gaining clients from, from the host him or herself, or their audience. But yeah, I, I, think that it can feel really intimidating. It can feel like you don’t have control over the situation, I think, when it comes to podcasting because you’re not the one editing it.

But don’t be afraid to just like, ask the host for more information if that’s going to make you feel more comfortable.

Double check that it’s going to be edited. Like those are things that might ease some of that, overwhelm or like if it feels scary to you.

Jade Boyd: So I want to go back a little bit to after pitching somebody, like we said, we get a lot of podcast pitches and I don’t know about you, but I get some people who just follow up and follow up and follow up and bug me to no end.

But at the same time, you don’t want to just email somebody and then drop it in case they were just busy or needed time to look through it. So what would you recommend as far as follow up etiquette after sending podcast pitches?

Sara Whittaker: Yeah. Such a good question. Because if you are going to go into this and say like, yes, I’m going to, I want to be a guest on podcasts. I want to try this strategy. It is very likely that you are going to have a lot of people not respond and it’s very likely that you might get some no’s and that’s just part of the process. So I just want to say that up front.

As far as follow up etiquette, because most people will need you to send a follow up. people are busy. A lot of people now don’t even check their inbox every day and they definitely don’t respond to an email right away. So there’s not like a perfect solution for this, but I think once you send that initial pitch, following up like a week later and then spreading it out from there.

So like maybe then every other, maybe every two weeks and then maybe a month, but at some point, like I’d say after, you know, three follow ups, three to four follow ups, I’d probably call it quits at that point. Yeah. Like take that. They’re probably not going to get back to you. I will say you might get people, cause I know I’ve done this as a podcaster, especially once we hit like this time of year right now, we’re recording this in mid October. At this point in the year, you might already have like your docket full for the next three months or so, at least to the end of the calendar year, that’s, that’s something else to consider is, you know, a lot of podcasters batch record and, or at least batch plan. And so they might be three to four months out and they’re planning.

And so you might have somebody respond and say something like, you know, my schedule is full right now, but could you follow back up in three months or four months or whatever it is? And if you get a response like that, I would actually do that. Set that date for yourself. I like to, I always recommend setting up your planning for this in some sort of project management tool and actually setting follow up due dates for yourself so that you are following up. So yeah, that’s what I would do. That was, that was kind of a long response, but I would say start up first follow up a week after your initial pitch and then spread it out, you know, two to three weeks from there.

Jade Boyd: I like that. I’ve also had people follow up with me on social media when I don’t respond to emails because at this point, if I see it’s a podcast pitch and it’s not immediately grabbing my attention or being an obvious yes, I don’t respond to very many of them because they look like templates. I usually just shove them in a folder called podcast pitches in case I do want to find, you know, an emergency guest in the future. But this one person followed up on Instagram recently, actually, and clarified this was probably in the email too. I just didn’t read the whole thing and was like, hey, I originally found you because I heard your episode on, you know, somebody else’s podcast.

And it was clear that she was actually following my podcast. And then we had like a real conversation, you know, in the DMs rather than through email. And so that can be another thing for people to I had never tried that following up, but that gave I mean, the idea for people who are managing their own Instagram accounts might be a better way.

Sara Whittaker: Yeah. No, that’s a, that’s a great point. And I think, you know, some people, I know a lot of people wonder, is it okay to reach out to people through Instagram or should it only be through email? And I think it’s. Like you said, totally fine, too, especially if it’s a follow up through Instagram. If you, like, have never had an interaction with this person before, I would start with email and then, yeah, track them down on socials, too.

I think that’s, it shows that they’re really interested and Instagram can sometimes, you know, be a little bit more of like a personalized, casual platform.

Jade Boyd: Right. That’s not so formal. And even like voice messaging and stuff like that, that makes it clear one passing that coffee test of, hey, I would actually like talking to this person and they’re,

Sara Whittaker: Definitely.

Jade Boyd: a person worth having on the podcast.

But also just starting the conversation so that if it’s not a fit, you can still engage with them and keep that like relationship going. Maybe there’ll be a better fit in the future sometime.

Sara Whittaker: Another thing that just popped in my mind was sometimes it can be hard to like find email addresses for people. So a lot of people, like I would always check their website too. Like I know on my website, I actually have a form that people can fill out if they’re interested in , guesting. So that’s just another place to go if you’re having trouble finding their email.

Jade Boyd: Yeah. That’s a good tip too, and I found that sometimes you just have to send it to the general email and it’s kind of hit or miss who’s checking that email and what kind of

Sara Whittaker: Yes.

Yes.

Jade Boyd: One thing that we kind of touched on a little bit, but I want to dive a little bit deeper into again, we’re talking about being strategic with guest podcasting, not just landing guest podcasts just to do it and not having that lead anywhere.

And of course, there’s all the value that we talked about in building your audience and getting people engaged, sending them to your resource or your podcast. But I’ve found personally, and I did not expect this going into podcasting in general, that one of the best things about podcasting is the relationships that you can build when you’re actually able to sit down for an hour with different business owners or people in your field or people whose ideas are really interesting and have really good conversations with them.

And so I’m curious what advice you have for maintaining those relationships with podcast hosts even after the interview is over, like where does it go from there?

Sara Whittaker: Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, first of all, if you are guests on somebody’s show, you always want to take the time to promote the episode once it goes live. So, and this is also something that you can include in your initial pitch too, is to let the host know from the get, if you have me as a guest, I will be promoting the episode to my audience. If you have any kind of like impressive audience numbers, you could even include that in your pitch, but regardless, you want to share this on your socials, through email. You could even do like, I’ve done, I’ve done this a few times and it’s always fun is to do some sort of like collaborative post or collaborative Instagram reel with the host so that you’re really showing them like, this is a two way street. I appreciate you having me on your show. I want to make sure that I’m sharing this with my audience as well, because you’re getting that exposure and when you share their episode, you’re also kind of returning the favor by hopefully bringing some new people into their world.

So that’s one thing. You definitely want to promote the episode. The other thing, if you’re a podcaster, it’s always fun to invite that person on your show. Just like Jade and I are doing, we’re doing like a podcast swap. So I get to come on your show and share things with your audience and you’re going to come on my show and share with my audience.

And so that’s a way to strengthen that relationship. another, just like another little tip would be to write a podcast review for the podcast that you’re guesting on. Write a review for them on Apple Podcasts, that’s such an easy way to show the support for the host and for the podcast. So those are just like a few little things, but I mean, you’re so right, like podcasting leads to such awesome relationships and that can continue into the future long after your episode airs. So I’ve seen a lot of people meet through podcast guesting who then go on to like include each other in maybe an online summit that they’re having or an Instagram live or something just like continuing that visibility with each other is really cool.

Jade Boyd: Yeah, and speaking to everything that you said, a lot of people that I have on the podcast don’t go through the effort to do those things, even though, like, in my workflow, I specifically ask in certain emails, like, hey, I would love if you left a review, you know, stuff like that. But just by doing those really simple things, which if you do all of those things, it’ll take you five to 10 minutes.

Like, it’s not a lot of work, but it goes a long way in building that relationship. And like you said, guest podcasting is not a transactional type of thing, it’s most helpful when it’s a relationship building tool and almost thinking about it like a networking event, not like, let me pay you to promote me type of thing. Then it just, it’s not fun for anybody.

Sara Whittaker: Yeah, oh my gosh. Yeah, absolutely. It’s, I’ve met so many cool people through podcast guesting and, and when you do those simple things too, like, you’re going to be the person that they think of when they need somebody to speak on this subject in the future.

Like maybe if they have a course or a membership, like you could also do a training in there or vice versa. But if you kind of, you know, show that reciprocation and make it a relationship, then there’s going to be more opportunities in the future as well. And it’s just nice to have new relationships with people in the online space who get what we do.

Jade Boyd: Yeah, totally. Above being strategic, it is just more fun to do business when you have a lot of business friends in different industries who you can message and ask questions when you need to. Like, that is the real value. And I know that we focused this episode mostly on talking about guest interviewing for people who may or may not have a podcast, but I would also love for you on like a closing note to speak to the service providers who don’t have a podcast.

What words of encouragement would you have for them? For the people who are kind of on the edge of like, I think I might want to start a podcast, but it doesn’t really seem like the easiest thing, or maybe it’s not for me. What advice would you give to them?

Sara Whittaker: Yeah. I mean, I could sit here and talk all day about how great podcasting is. I just think it’s such a, more like more than anything, it’s so much fun. Like it adds this element of fun to your business and it just allows you to get in front of more people and showcase your expertise like we were talking about earlier. And if you’re a service provider and you are looking for more one on one clients, I mean, podcasting is such a cool way to accomplish that and it’s not going to, like, you don’t need that many one on one clients. And so it really doesn’t take that much, but it’s a, it’s just such a fun way to get in front of new audiences, get in front of more people, help more people. And it’s really like, I can speak from experience as a service provider, it’s just like really helped me expand my business into new things that like I never thought I might do. Like starting an email list, starting a course, starting a membership. It just opens a lot of doors and it’s a really like low barrier to entry. People think that the tech is really hard. You truly like you need a mic, headphones and a computer and you can start a podcast and you can do it really well.

Jade Boyd: I love that. I’m pro podcasting too. So if you’re thinking about starting a podcast, just do it and see where it goes.

Sara Whittaker: Just, just do it. Yeah. I mean, it really, like, it’s just an experiment and you really, you don’t have anything to lose. It’s so much fun and it can do incredible things for your business. And, and as we’ve already said, like. You have the expertise, you have the knowledge, and being able to get behind a mic and showcase that in a new way is so much fun.

Jade Boyd: One pop question bonus question that I’ve started incorporating to every interview is what is one thing that you think business owners can stop doing right now?

Sara Whittaker: Oh gosh, what is one thing that business owners can stop doing? I mean, I feel like this, I don’t know if anybody’s ever said this before on your podcast, but like, I think you can stop comparing yourself to other people that you see on Instagram. I know that I have to like really limit my scrolling because the comparison is real, especially if you are following other people who do similar things to what you do. It’s so easy to compare yourselves to them and like by now, I think we all know that social media is like a highlight reel and we just have to remind ourselves of that so stop looking at other people’s content and comparing yourself or thinking that you’re not doing enough.

Jade Boyd: Yes, I’ve actually experienced that a lot recently. I thought I had all the business accounts like cleaned out and now that’s all the motherhood content that’s like, wait, what am I doing this wrong? And I’ve just had to be like, you know what? I just can’t, I can’t be there. I can’t look at that stuff because there’s too much. We have access to too much information and too many opinions. It is a lot.

Sara Whittaker: Way too much information and yes, I’m dealing with the same thing with motherhood content. And from a business perspective, it’s like, and motherhood perspective, like you can, you can go on Instagram and see advice and then five seconds later, see a different post with the complete opposite advice and it just causes this like overwhelm and confusion. And so we just have to really like trust ourselves and, and do what’s best for us and our business and our families.

Jade Boyd: Well, for everybody listening who does want to get into your world and is interested about podcasting and all of the tips you have, Sarah’s podcast is absolutely amazing, which I think is how we originally got connected. I think we were both listening to each other’s podcast

Sara Whittaker: Yes absolutely.

Jade Boyd: then we happened to connect and we’re like, wow, I want to be on your podcast too, which is such a funny coincidence, but I learned so much from you on your podcast. So for anybody interested in learning more from you, where can they find you after the show?

Sara Whittaker: And I just have to say I love your podcast too and I think it’s so funny, you responded to one of my emails one day and I was like, oh my gosh, Jade listens to my podcast. I listen to her podcast. so funny. Yeah. It’s hilarious. But yeah, I am podcasting for educators everywhere. So podcastingforeducators.com podcasting for educators on Instagram. My podcast is called Podcasting For Educators, so super easy to remember, but you can find me there. I, as. As far as social media goes, I definitely hang out on Instagram the most, and I release new episodes every single Wednesday. So we cover all kinds of podcasting things, podcast guesting, growing your podcast, private podcasting, all kinds of good stuff.

And then I also do have a mini course. You can get through it and you know, a weekend called Guesting For Educators. And it just, it does walk you through a lot of what we talked about today. But it also has like swipe copy for sample pitches and follow ups. And it also has a really great Canva template for a media kit that you can include in your pitches as well. So I wanted to share that and let you know that if you use the code TBE, you can get it for $17. So, definitely either check that out or the podcast if you want to try out podcast guesting.

Jade Boyd: It’s really, really good. So we’ll make sure to have all of those links in the show notes too. So thanks so much for being here, Sarah. This is great.

Sara Whittaker: Thanks, Jade. This was awesome.